It’s not uncommon to sometimes hear people from conservative religious backgrounds make the statement ‘the Bible says homosexuality is a sin’. This is actually a false statement as there is no chapter or verse for that quote we so often hear in either the Old or New Testaments. It is a belief/assumption based on an interpretation of several verses—six passages out of 31,240 verses actually. While you are looking in your concordance for the ‘verse’ ‘homosexuality is a sin’…..try and find the ‘verse’ often quoted ‘God helps those who help themselves’ or ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ as well….hehe.It’s actually impossible for homosexuality to be a sin because we know from science that homosexuality is a sexual orientation (a foreign concept in biblical times) and like a heterosexual orientation is, in itself, amoral (not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral).
When the concept of orientation is brought into the discussion these people will then often suggest that others have desires that are clearly sin and should not be acted on but resisted. They ask questions like, “Why do you believe it’s okay for you to act on your orientation. Couldn’t others in society like………….make the same claim.?”
The list includes such things as:
- Murderer – a criminal (a person guilty or convicted of a crime) who commits homicide; who performs the unlawful premeditated killing of another human being.
- Adulterer – a person who has sexual intercourse with another married person or a partner other than the lawful spouse.
- Thief – a person who steals another person’s property, esp. by stealth and without using force or violence
- Alcoholic – a person suffering from alcoholism (addicted to intoxicating drinks)Drug addict – a person who is addicted to a narcotic
- Pedophile – a person who is sexually attracted to children (a criminal offense and abuse of power or a relationship)
Sexual orientation
There are a large number of people in Christian circles and beyond that think of sexual orientation only in terms of sexual activity. This is a very limited view and demonstrates ignorance of the growing scientific research in the area of sexuality and brain/hormonal activity and processing. Sexual orientation is much more profound than a sex act.
Depending on a person’s sexual orientation (homo, hetero or bi) sexual/relational expression comes out of their orientation. According to one’s own experience, sex can be meaningless, addictive, abusive, or the most profound act of love and intimacy two individuals can experience, whether they are of the same or opposite sex.
Sexual orientation is about:
- Love
- Intimacy
- Affection
- Partnering
- Companionship
The examples in the first list are either a crime against society, another person, their property, abuse or an addiction that can destroy the individuals life.
As a gay man my same-sex orientation is not a crime, does not take the life of another, break a promise I have made to my partner, abuse others and is not an addiction destroying my life etc. It’s an orientation.
Murders, abuse, addictions are tragic examples of damaged humanity or evil and are not determined by a person’s sexual identity or orientation.
As mentioned, sexual orientation is essentially about love, intimacy, affection, partnering and companionship and these are some of the most fulfilling experiences we can have in life as human beings.
To deny gay and lesbian people these God created experiences is cruel and has no biblical precedent. But to liken our same sex orientation to things like murder, abuse or addiction is not only ignorant it is highly offensive.
You say:
Sexual orientation is about:
Love
Intimacy
Affection
Partnering
Companionship
But you miss the key element of the sex drive in human beings as placed in us, male and female, from the beginning, which you would have to know, as a former minister, was procreation, as part of the command to multiply.
Of course, non-heterosexual folk have, in general, the capacity for multiplication, but, according to your concept of the essentials of sexual orientation, not the drive, although many will have the desire to be parents, but not in partnership, as per God's plan, with a member of the opposite sex, which creates a conundrum, because it immediately puts you face to face with God's number one intention for sexual relations, and that is family, and the increase of the human race.
In fact you list of five attributes are outlined as essentials for all believers, but not as sexual orientation, but as part of our new creation nature. Children all have these innate needs, but without the sex drive. They are not generally hugely oriented one way or the other until they begin to reach puberty and their hormones kick in, again, as designed by God for the express purpose of procreation. In fact some children will find the idea of a relationship with a member of the opposite sex quite repulsive at various times in their childhood. This is because they are not supposed to come alive to the opposite sex as a potential mate until puberty.
So the idea that a person is born with any specific sexual orientation but that which involves procreation alongside recreation isn't born out by anything in scripture, simply because it was never God's will, intention or purpose for his creation.
What you are suggesting is recreation as a substitute for procreation, plainly because it is impossible for gay couples to procreate without the assistance of seed from the other gender, whether through copulation or by ivf. The idea that this is Gods will for certain people is completely unfounded, in scripture and in reality.
I know there are some anomalies which crop up in heterosexual relationships which make childbearing a difficulty for some couples, but that is comparatively rare these days, and a result of the corruption that is in the world through sin, not evidence of God having changed the original assignment for men and women.
Your claim that there s no scripture which references homosexual sex is also incorrect, but that is another subject.
@steve…..thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
puberty is the time when most people become aware of their sexual orientation as that is when the hormones kick in as you say.
If a person is straight they will seek Love
Intimacy, Affection, Partnering, Companionship with someone of the opposite sex.
If a person is gay or lesbian they will seek Love
Intimacy, Affection, Partnering, Companionship with someone of the same sex.
Love, Intimacy, Affection, Partnering, companionship can only be experienced to their fullest as adults.
The fact that the relationship doesn't produce children is irrelevant. The relationship is beautiful in and of itself.
If God only gave sexual drive for procreation only……then I think he might say enough is enough now considering over population and the poverty that has caused in many countries.
Hi Steve,
If God's number one intention for sex between two people was procreation, that would mean I would've had sex with my husband only four times in our married life. And it would mean that if couples cannot conceive they need to stop having sex. And if a couple is too old to be having babies, they also should stop having sex.
God said the two shall become one.
This is about intimacy, love and affection.
Sex is about intimacy, love and affection.
To make it solely, or even predominantly, about procreation is to miss what God intended all along.
…intimacy between couples as there is between us and him.
In fact the poverty problem is one of inequity of wealth distribution. Some commentaries were saying the same things 20 years ago. Population increase is not evidence that God doesn't want us to procreate, rather, evidence we have successfully carried out his will.
If you read what I wrote, Sue, you'd see I mention that procreation is a missing part of the list Anthony produced. It is a crucial part, since it was on God's list from the beginning, but it is not the only part, pleasure being included, but only in the marriage bed for Christians.
However, in Genesis he didn't mention, 'they shall have pleasure'. He said they would multiply, and they have! Sarah did mention that she'd have pleasure in her old age, but that was also in reference to the prerequisite of childbirth.
When God said the two shall become one, it was indeed all about intimacy, love and affection, but it was also about generational increase.
I did not at any point make it solely, or predominantly, about procreation. I pointed out the the articles missing and important key to God's plan for creating us male and female.
To dear “Steve”
It has been such a very intellectual and enriching experience reading your wonderful biased comments all about sexuality and how important it is to procreate? I truly agree with you, if it would make you feel that your personal deep-seated narrow- minded “point of view” is warranted then fine you are correct then.
Why is procreation so important to you, how many children do you have and what happens when you wake up in the morning, the heat and blinding light of the sun streaming through your window, your naked body glistening with the moist potential sweat from the heat of the night before? The sheets drenching in it as you push them back your boxer shorts (if you wear any) to bed) would be tenting as your jolly roger down below immediately rose to its full intensity angry, raging crying out for attention as you blindly adjust yourself trying to make it goes down but its rampant hardness beckons you aching for that release. What do you then do? Call out to your wife, begging her to come back to you and hump you and in return hopefully, you can make her pregnant again, treating her like she is nothing more than a human incubator manufacturing babies like some pasteurising machine in the dairy factory pumping out cheese or do you take “matters into your own hands” saying a prayer of forgiveness to our holy father up there as you end up being consumed by lust your whole body shaking as your “Rosie Palmer and her five sinful daughters” takes over, (you are angry with frustration at your wife for ignoring your pitiful cries for help) and also she may be busy or not available. Our father up there telepathically says to you go for it my son embrace your wonderful God-given sexuality that I have given you as a gift, you are forgiven, my son, you then end masturbating, rubbing it up and down and spilling that holy seed of procreation like what Onan did from the Bible it erupting, spewing out everywhere like some huge sexual explosion, grunting and moaning with absolute total pleasure then afterwards you lie back and enjoy the afterglow, relieved then drifting back to sleep for a while satisfied until the “animalistic, hungry urge” once again decides to take over.
Sex is not just about procreation, it is also about pleasure and connectedness but love and faithful commitment to that special someone are also very important. We do not live in biblical times, we live in the modern day times, we need to focus on the issues that are happening now and interpret the bible in a way that would end up making the meanings of the holy-text more humanistic. That is just my opinion, your warped way of thinking Steve is so backward and so primitive and far-fetched that it makes me wonder if you really a modern day human being. It is unfortunate that you are not the only one out there on this warped planet who thinks like you do, I guess that is just the way it is.