On May 8, 2006, I was interviewed by Barry Mackay for the U.S. radio program This Way Out (thiswayout.org).  This Way Out remains the only internationally distributed weekly LGBTQ radio program, currently airing on approximately 200 community radio stations around the world.

SCROLL DOWN FOR TRANSCRIPT.

The above interview marked an important moment in my journey, and so much has happened since then. Here are some of the key developments:

1. A Life of Unlearning

The first edition of my memoir, A Life of Unlearning, struck a chord and became a bestseller in Australia. It sold out quickly, prompting a revised second edition in 2007—which also sold out. The third edition is now available through online bookstores, and the eBook can be downloaded from Amazon.

You can read reviews and excerpts here: alifeofunlearning.com

2. A Pentecostal Church Takes a Stand

In 2009, Bayside Church in Melbourne became the first Pentecostal megachurch in in the world to openly affirm LGBTQ people. It was a historic and courageous step forward in bridging the divide between faith and sexuality.

More on that story here: abbi.org.au/2009/10/pentecostal-pastor-welcomes-gays-to-churc

3. Leaving Hillsong, Continuing the Conversation

Not long after that 2006 interview, I ceased attending Hillsong Church. However, my work didn’t stop there—I remained committed to engaging in respectful dialogue behind the scenes, advocating for change from within.

You can read about those efforts here: abbi.org.au/2019/09/hillsong-and-conversion-therapy-2

4. From Freedom2b to ABBI

After leading Freedom2b until 2011, I founded Ambassadors & Bridge Builders International (ABBI). The goal of ABBI is to create safe spaces for conversation and transformation—offering resources, training, and open dialogue with Christian leaders, churches, and organisations.

Let’s Keep the Momentum Going

If you believe in the power of personal stories, respectful dialogue, and inclusive faith, there are many ways you can support this work:

  • Buy or gift a copy of A Life of Unlearning

  • Use social media buttons to share this blog post with someone who needs encouragement or insight. 

  • Invite ABBI to speak at your church, organisation, or community event

  • Make a donation to help us continue creating life-changing resources and conversations. You can contribute various ways. CLICK HERE. 

Together, we can build bridges of understanding and inclusion that make a real difference.

TRANSCRIPT:

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Anthony Venn Brown, ex-gay programs, Youth Alive, homosexuality, autobiography, psychological damage, freedom2b, Assemblies of God, Pentecostal doctrine, sexual orientation, theological perspective, church acceptance, gay and lesbian, faith and sexuality, tolerance and acceptance.

SPEAKERS

Anthony Venn-Brown, Greg Gordon, Barry Mckay

Greg Gordon 

This Way Out (https://www.thiswayout.org/). correspondent Barry McKay talks with Anthony Venn Brown at his home in Sydney, Australia.

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Well, I am a former Assemblies of God leader in Australia, one of the prominent preachers, and used to preach in all the mega churches around Australia, such as Hillsong. I started the largest youth organization in New South Wales, which is Youth Alive now, with 10,000s  of young people in it. But of course, during that time, when I was very well connected as a preacher, that I was actually a gay man fighting my homosexuality.

Barry Mckay 

What was going on for you during that time?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Well, I lived with the belief, as many people do within those circles, that it was unacceptable for me to be homosexual, unacceptable to God, certainly, and to others. So I spent 22 years going through ex gay programs, exorcisms, 40 day fasts and 16 years of marriage to try and change my sexual orientation.

Barry Mckay 

Were you a practicing homosexual at that time?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

I was struggling with it daily, and most of the time, I could win those battles, but not all times. And it was during one of those encounters that I actually was forced to face the toughest decision of my life.

Barry Mckay 

What was that?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Well, I met a guy in Brisbane, in Queensland, Australia, and what happened was, I think it was the first intimate moment that I’d ever had with a man, and that touched me very deeply. And I knew then that it was not really about the sex, but about the love. And I fell in love.

Barry Mckay 

So you’ve written an autobiography that’s actually been touching quite a lot of people worldwide. What sort of responses have you been getting from people because of your book?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

The response Barry has been overwhelming because I’ve had emails from such a variety of people, but the common theme is they’re all saying your story is my story, and they talk to me about their the conflict that their faith and their sexuality has caused them to the point where some have suffered some psychological damage or deep emotional trauma. Some have even attempted suicide, or some, some actually have suicided. We’ve lost three guys in one church in the space of two years, which was very tragic. And so people have tried to get married, and pastors have told them this would solve their problem. So have such a variety of people and the consequences that they’ve experienced because of this conflict between their faith and their sexuality, it’s been overwhelming.

Barry Mckay 

What are you doing now to help these people?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Well, several things. Barry, it’s been exciting to see that we’ve actually started a global network now, which is an online community, but we also have meetings. We call them get togethers, which is great. It’s very informal, a very safe space for people to come and share with people and talk about their experiences that they other people who understand. But our online community is freedom2b and their people are able to share their stories. We have resources for them, for if they will look at the theological basis or look at from a clinical or biological or psychological basis, all the information is there, and they can chat with other people.

Barry Mckay 

Now, I understand that you’re still in touch with the Assemblies of God leadership here in Australia.

Anthony Venn-Brown 

I think that I’ve got such a privileged position Barry, because most of the men who are on the national executive Assemblies of God at Australia were my closest personal friends in the ministry, and here they are now in the leadership. And you know, what I would love to create is a very respectful and intelligent dialogue around the issue of sexual orientation. The most powerful thing that I have to offer is my integrity and who I am as a person. That I’m not an angry activist, you know, who’s there wanting to fight. I’m wanting to call people to the table, to sit down and talk in an intelligent way. And so by me maintaining some relationship and contact with these people, even though there might be a difference of opinion and a belief, we can actually have some respect for each other and start to move things forward.

Barry Mckay 

Have you been seeing any progress there yet?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

I have already, yes. There have been people that written to me that have said, actually have totally turned around my belief system now, through being in contact with you over the last six months.

Barry Mckay 

So what are your future plans now?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Well, there is another book on the way, which I’ve been considering writing, especially talking about some other stories that have come through from the responses from my readers, and also reaching out globally. I’ve got a number of contacts now in the US there are other churches there, which are Pentecostal churches, which are affirming, which is miraculous. Anyone who’s been involved in those things will know that’s an amazing step forward. We’re waiting for that to happen here in Australia. there will be the first church. We’re not sure who it is yet, but it will happen. And so we are going to gather strength in numbers, because we are now able to connect through the internet, and so that’s what we’re doing. Now,

Barry Mckay 

Are you still a practicing Pentecostal?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

I go along to Hillsong Church on a regular basis. I have a very, very strong faith. What’s actually happened, I guess, is all the garbage that previously existed in my belief system through what I’ve been through is totally washed away now it got washed away when with the big explosion that happened in my life, so that now I have, I think, a very strong and what we would say would be the essence of faith and relationship with God.

Barry Mckay 

How can you reconcile Pentecostal doctrine with homosexuality?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Current Pentecostal doctrine is not reconciled with homosexuality. But what we need to do, if we get a look at this theologically, we actually have to look at it from a perspective of the culture of the day, the historical context of these verses which are used against homosexuality, and to go back in the original language. And when things are looked at from that aspect, as opposed to a literal translation, you get a whole different understanding perspective on what those verses mean.

Barry Mckay 

How can people get in touch with you?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

They could do it through the freedom2b website, which is www.as, freedom with a number two and the letter b.org, so that’s freedom to be.org (now www.abbi.org.au)

Barry Mckay 

Anthony sees a bright future ahead for gays and lesbians in the church.

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Change is happening, and all the polls tell us every time they come out a survey is that there is this gradual shift within the community. The more people get to know who we are, the preconceived ideas and the misconceptions can drop away, and we can start to learn to embrace difference and have tolerance and acceptance.

Barry Mckay 

Do you think the church is changing its views on accepting gays?

Anthony Venn-Brown 

Some corners of the church are, others are fighting it tooth and nail, but they’re fighting a losing battle. There’s been three challenges to the church. The first challenge was around slavery. The second challenge has been around the role of women and equality of women. Now the church is facing this third challenge, which is about gay and lesbian people and acceptance.

Barry Mckay 

Anthony’s book is called A Life of Unlearning. For This Way Out, I’m Barry Mackay in Sydney, Australia.